Veterans Demand Apology from GOP and FOX for Lies About VA - Veterans For Common Sense

R. Donald Snyder

People like Steele are just scum, acting scummy. Same with Palin.

Lying about end of life help from the VA and turning it into a "death book" is beyond despicable.

R DONALD SNYDER---the constitution gives the press the right to check the government and report what the government is doing but not the right to give the public misinformation, fox and other so called press people are using the constitution like they do the bible to fit their thinking not for what it says, fox gives out lies every day and all day and the FCC still allow them to say they are a news station, free speech does not give you the right to decimate lies with malices.

LOL who was it that said

in the name of the American solider quit making stuff up

I wonder if they will ever follow their own luminarie's (LOL) advice?

We should all contact the FCC and complain about Fox, Fox news does not serve the public interest in any way shape or form. We should also boycott all of their advertisers as much as possible.

No worries, the new improved FCC will be making a B-line to take out FOX news as fast as they can conjure up some reason or another to take them off the air.

It is again a slur against health care reform and obviously the GOP will stoop to any level to spread their fear mongering and insanity. I agree with what Brandon said I feel like I am going to blow somewhere inside if this nonsense keeps up. And the pity of it all is there are vulnerable american citizens out there who will believe this @!$%# and become afraid. How Low can they Go? I was never a person who hated anyone but I am really getting close to the line.

I hope so Mac, I really hope so. But they don't need to conjure up anything, Fox news tells lies and calls it news. It's that simple. If you can't see how that's harmful then I don't know what to say to you.

Moo

ABC recently aired non-stop Health Care reform piece all day long. No other group was allowed to speak, air, or show contrasting points of view. The 3 major US media news sites are pretty much as bias for this administration as FOX is bias against it. So in other words, if you don't agree then remove it from the air? You can remove FOX from the air waves but people will still ask questions. I could care less if you take FOX off just take a few of the other ones as well.

I try to watch some FOX just to keep up with what is going on in all corners of the world - even the hard to reach corners. And I want to give Mac credit for the fact that most media is biased one way or the other. However, my big problem with FOX is that it isn't just a couple of their shows, I have NEVER saw a show on FOX that showed more than their same old point of view. Even if you don't like KO or Rachel Maddow, you could still watch shows on MSNBC like Morning Joe, which has two hosts - one republican and one democrat.

You know which way a host leans before you watch the show normally, but with FOX you know no matter what show you turn on you're getting the same thing.

ABC recently aired non-stop Health Care reform piece all day long. No other group was allowed to speak, air, or show contrasting points of view. The 3 major US media news sites are pretty much as bias for this administration as FOX is bias against it. So in other words, if you don't agree then remove it from the air? You can remove FOX from the air waves but people will still ask questions. I could care less if you take FOX off just take a few of the other ones as well.

Any talk of taking FoxNews off is hyperbole. Calm down. It will be around as long as it has advertisers and cable outlets willing to carry it.

Just a point of clarification: FoxNews isn't on the "air waves" - it's on cable.

True, FOX is on cable. Like I said, I can only watch a limited amount of that station just like CNN or MSNBC or the rest of them.

I'd like to agree with you,

but you just aren't foul mouthed and insulting enough to make a convincing argument.

supergerbil007

Perhaps if the RePOOPlicans who started the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan would get togther with the DemoCRAZIES who are continuing these damned wars, then maybe no one would have to apologize to anyone. Keep these F--king, FUTILE wars going and you will be having more veterans committing suicide than you can imagine. Both sides (left and right) are nothing but a bunch of Sh--head hypocrites with regard to these wars. Both Bush and Obama (two men with slim to zero military experience) are responsible for these wars which are maiming and ruining the health of thousands of our most excellent young men and women of our Armed Forces. STOP THE GOD DAMN WARS YOU @!$%#S.

SUPERGERBIL007---you may had some good points but your vulgarity made your comment hard to respond to.

war is always more vulger than any words

Exactly, Momo. You'd think that ending a war is akin to packing up after a week at the beach to listen to the GOP whining about Obama not keeping his promise to leave Iraq.

Because even though we are trying to "wind down" and end the war in Iraq they have needed an increase in the war budget for years now. Have you watched any of the documentaries of what our soldiers are having to deal with over there? At one point they barely had enough ammunition to defend themselves. Yes, I want the war in Iraq to end, but I know that we can't just pack up and come home tomorrow. So, while our soldiers still have to be there, the least we can do is increase their budget enough to ensure they have all the supplies they need until we can get them home.

AlphaDogReporter

Fox has been loading up their talk shows with shills to keep these kinds of egregious lies perpetuated. Instead of the hosts repeating the lies, they are getting the guests to do it for them. Watch a couple of episodes of Hannity (if you can) and you'll see what I mean.

AlphaDogReporter ---Hannity ask loaded question knowing that their are only one way to answer his question, these people are good at twisting any debate, but fox republican news and the republicans have become unglued and are grasping at straws trying every nasty thing they can do to bring the president down, they have taken off their hoods and are out in full force.

They have taken off their hoods? You mean the white ones that go with the white sheets they wear?

The hoods do fit their pointy little heads well.

Debi-940055

I keep thinking that the right must have hit rock bottom, but it appears they are descending into an abyss, with no bottom in sight.

Sigh.

I am a black veteran who severed my country in 66 and 68 when i was still not a full citizen of this Country but i was proud to sever and what fox is doing is asinine and hateful, the color of change have tried to take Beck off the air with his racism, and fox should not be called a news station, i am not for silencing free speech but i am against free speech been used for propaganda.

I am sure the new FCC Czar will "focus" as much attentionas possible to get rid of FOX, Rush, and any other media outlet that doesn't follow or adhere to the new administration.

ROFLMAO...you mean the new FCC Diversity Officer that will be in charge of making sure there is diversity in the media - as in they are being an equal opportunity employer?

Sorry, I saw that Beck show, too, and I took the time to look up the facts of his new conspiracy theory.

What does the FCC need a diversity officer anyway? All of the sudden we need a diversity officer. I read the article before Beck even thought about his discussion point, Beck was missing a few pieces, but no problem I am sure he is the best choice...ROFLMAO as well.

I honestly can't say why the FCC needs a diversity officer, I was just correcting the misinformation about what it was about and got off topic. Sorry about that. :-)

Yeah they could be the new energizer bunny!

I am sure the new FCC Czar will "focus" as much attentionas possible to get rid of FOX, Rush, and any other media outlet that doesn't follow or adhere to the new administration.

If only!

The FCC, under George W. Bush's first term allowed Rupert Murdoch to create this ilk known as Fox News. It's now time for the FCC to stop it.

Well if it will bring about real unbias reporting then I would support it, but since we get little of that with the rest of the media outlets it is like saying, "pick these guys because they don't like me..."

Mac - The VA has the highest "customer satisfaction" ranking of any health care system.

It is always easy to find fault with something (and I think all vets can find something they dislike about their local VA) but the fact is many of the things you say are common in ALL hospitals and, in fact ALL businesses.

Everybody here in any business can tell you of someone who cares more about the paycheck than the job. So Effing what?

Everybody here can point to someone who is dead weight - so effing what?

Ranting lets off steam but accomplishes nothing. Really all you have said is that the VA is normal, like all other systems.

isakb2:

First of all, I am not sure how you can come off and place a statement about me when you don't even know me. Here again is the greatest problem with the current situation. If you disapprove of something, you dislike something, you don't agree with someone, then the first thing that happens on newsvine is: "Are you really this person....you must be on the payroll.." total BS.

How about this, would it make you feel more secure if I posted my DD 214 or my US Army 2-1 form? Or do I need to post pictures of the scares on my lower back (from a 82mm mortar round April 18, 2004, Camp Victory-Baghdad, Iraq) or the massive scar on my left side when they yanked a tumor out of my head on 30 June 2005 after I had returned from my 2nd Iraqi tour of duty? Don't judge me because I make a few comments that do not roll with the flow. I don't run around singing the same song and dance saying to people, "I am deaf because I protected your freedoms...etc" I was out there because my team was out there, my section, my immediate platoon, and my Soldiers that assisted in training, leading from the front, and making sure they all came back home. So question someone else. Question those people who have no clue as to what it is to risk your life and place your rear out there not for the love of country but for the dedication to your buddies. So please lay off the whole questioning my military record. I was honorable medical retirement 21 July 2009, so if you have any questions feel free to zing me a note, otherwise you can save those "mean spirt comments for someone else."

I have to venture to the VA Downtown Medical Center in Augusta, GA. So please look it up to make sure that there is a Charlie Norwood VA Center to make sure I am not blowing smoke up someone's rear. I have to go there to constantly have my back reviewed and request for the damaged done to my hearing and for constant headaches. So my "experience" with that center has been real and not "made up." The same VA which rolled me out of the hospital a day after back surgery early in the morning. The same VA that pretty much kicked me out of the hospital without even given me a drink or a cracker. Pushed me to the edge of the covered parking lot and I had to call my wife to come and get me. So yeah my experience with this VA and the medical addition at the Medical College of Georgia has been a little "negative".

So effing what. Is it so much to ask normal working folk to pay just a little attention to the veterans at the location then sit there and act as if asking them a question is not in the job requirement? It is not like I walk in there ticked off. I am always saying yes ma'am, no sir, etc to people who act like that I am more of a bother then a customer.

My point is while this is a poor choice of words concerning the FOX reporting, there are a lot more stories out there about veterans that could be addressed then this piece.

@ Eriq:

Yes, you are correct, the VA is no different then any other company or organization, but I would expect them to be better then the average company. The customers at the VA are not some everyday shopper but veterans who deserve the best and rate the best care, the best bedside manner, and the best people to assist them in their needs. I am sorry if I think the VA should be held to a higher standard but from where I sit this isnt happening. So if that caused some people some grief, then you must have a really great center and consider yourself lucky. My apologies for causing any problems that was not my intent.

Mac

My point is while this is a poor choice of words concerning the FOX reporting, there are a lot more stories out there about veterans that could be addressed then this piece.

Wouldn't it be better for Fox to address real problems rather than made up problems? I'm not saying they are any better or worse than any other news station, but if you want real problems to be addressed hold them to that standard as well.

@ chick76:

I totally agree. FOX should be held at the same standard as every other news media outlet, but on the flip side, if questions are being asked regardless if you like/dislike President Obama then they should not be ignored either. I wouldn't watch FOX and say that is unbias reporting, but that goes as well for NBC, CBS, or ABC.

Thanks Mack for serving our country and putting your life on the line. I have seen a few VA centers, some are good and some definitely need improvement. Your treatment at MCG was pretty much reprehensible especially since MCG is highly valued in Augusta. Many of the VA hospitals need better funding and modernizing. The sh$t is hitting the fan with healthcare reform and maybe the VA too will come out better for it

@ dixielee:

MCG has a VA wing right across the main building, that is where I had my back surgery. The VA staff had one decent nurse there who treated me with the most sincere kindness, she was on the night time staff and gave me some snacks so I could eat something and fall asleep. She said that her brother was in the service and she could not imagine him getting treated like s--t, so she made it a point to do whatever she could to assist me. But the rest of the staff I came across were very rude, could care less about your situation, and ignored many on that recovery wing. I wrote 2 ICE reports and nothing was done, said, or anyone attempted to contact me. Maybe health care reform may open some to the inabilities at some VA locations maybe not, but some of those who are on the VA payroll need to get a new job.

I work for Dept of Social Services. I haven't had direct dealings with the VA health system in my job, but I have had plenty of contact with the Veterans Service Offices and I can tell you that they are the finest people you could hope to encounter. They put the veterans first and do whatever they can to make sure that their "customers" get all the services to which they are entitled.

Well at least there are some out there that do seek to provide quailty care for those who have served in harms way. I am not saying that anyone who works for the VA must stink in the customer service section, I am saying that there are a number of people who work at the VA site I have appointments at that are "lacking" people skills and that is an understatement.

Mac,

I understand where you're coming from. I helped my father get his VA benefits. His wonderful worker from the Dept of Social Services referred him to a VA rep who helped us fill out all the necessary paperwork, etc. We barely had to do a thing, and his rep was there every step of the way. All in all, it was a wonderful experience thanks to all of the professionals involved and the great way they did their job.

THAT credit having been give where it was due, I am not naive enough to believe that it is this simple for every veteran trying to get their benefits. I'm sure that there are plenty of "professionals" in this process that don't like their jobs and aren't willing to give their all.

I suppose it's like checking out at the store. It depends which check out lane you get in whether you get a nice, happy cashier, or a person that hates their job so much they break your eggs throwing them in the sack.

I'm very sorry that you got stuck with an "egg breaker"!

@ Blue:

I am glad that your father received his benefits and that you were treated with respect and kindness. I wish that was the case that I received but it wasn't. But I am not thinking that the entire VA system stinks. I think that there are plenty in the VA and for that matter within the Federal Government that are only there to collect a paycheck and get their one hour lunch break. It is sad but that is how it is. I have sat at the VA center I have to go to and watched countless veterans from various conflicts get treated not as a customer but as a nusiance. I walked over to a WW2 vet that had been wheeled over into a corner because they needed to take a break. Left this poor guy staring at a retro-1970s painted wall for at least 20 minutes. So I walked over to him and pulled him towards the TV and out of the sunlight. His cap read, "WW2 Veteran: D-DAY Omaha Beach". He gave me a handshake and said, "I was beginning to think that they had gone and left me."

I am glad that your father got his benefits and that you were there to assist him. I can only hope that when it comes my time that some person will wheel me from staring out a blank wall if I am at the VA hospital or medical center.

@Mac:

That is heartbreaking! You just call me and I'll come wheel ya where ever you'd like to go, and then I'll go back and kick someone's @$$ and let them know they don't get a break until they get their job done!!! It's crappy when someone hates their jobs and clients/customers suffer for it, but when you work in public assistance and don't like your job it's time to change professions! I've worked for a nonprofit agency (we assist people with utility bills and rental assistance, etc.) and I worked through lunch if I had clients in my waiting room. People depend on you and need your assistance. They don't get to take a break.

I agree - there is zero accountability. Both sides are at fault, but on the health care debate the conservatives have run the BS o'Meter clear off the scale. Even a few of the Republican talk show hosts that I had some respect for have come completely unhinged.

There is a lot of BS going around on both sides. The problem is that no one in the media is asking anything.

Well, the media may not be asking the right questions, but the VA is. I'd like to know the GOP/FOX response to the VA's demanded apology. Hopefully this article doesn't fade and give them the excuse that they didn't hear about it. Our veterans have enough to worry about and have given enough of themselves to this country. They shouldn't have to worry about people telling them that their government wants them dead!!!

Mac:

If you get a chance to catch Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow - they do an excellent job debunking the garbage spewing from Fox.

I can't watch too much of FOX, then again I can't watch too much of NBC, CBS, or ABC. Pretty much there is little to no room for real reporting because either you have rolled over dead with the new administration or you have nothing to do but seek constant negative stories. So I guess you are left with watching the BBC-America to receive 50% unbias reporting.

Isak - now that makes no sense - you may have this opinion but have not demonstrated it.

Obviously Mac knows something or he would have no opinion, which demonstrates something about your comment - silly, boorish, rude

Actually Mac's comment is mostly true for me an many i know as well. Why do you think one of the most trusted news sources in america right now is The Daily Show with John Stewart.

Well John Stewart is the master Isnt he! But Im still a Rachel Maddow watcher. She has been doing some investigative digging latly .Its amazing how one name leads to another in the naming of facts.

@ isakb2:

You know it is okay to disagree with people in a respectful manner. If you don't agree with someone's opinion then you just don't agree, you don't go and make rash assessments on my educational background, or writing abilities because I clash with your feelings.

isakb2:

Whatever. You seem to be focus on my comments and my comments alone. If you think I am going to lose any sleep because you think I am not really a veteran then don't bother. I have had a number of people send rounds down my way so this is nothing and it is sort of funny that in a discussion about the VA and the status of our many new incoming veterans that we actually have fellow veterans say that they are full of "crap". I could care less if you were the biggest President Obama supporter out there, if you served I give you respect for wearing a uniform while many went the other direction, but I never question another veteran regardless if I disagree with him or her. You just don't do it. You can disagree with his/her comments but you don't cross the line as to assume that they know nothing. That is the part that set me off.

Maybe they'll get Mark Sanford to do it - apologize I mean - He's sooooooooo good at apologizing in public - boo hoo

Sanford gave a hollow apology. But he will never step down like he demanded from Clinton. After all he is like King David, chosen by God, and far above his fellow man.

excummic8ed

I guess I should have used a sarcastic tag on my comment - Sanford is so scummy, he will fight his own constituents to hang on to the office. I just feel sorry for the people in South Carolina. In any event - his political career is over. His wife even left him. Now his own deputy governor wants him to step down. If he had a dog - the dog would be pissing on Sanford's leg and walking out on him too.

Disgusting.

That's what I don't get about the GOP. They scream about "big government" and when they get in power they do their best to screw up programs designed for the public good. Then when these programs have problems from their "tinkering" instead of trying to fix problems they stand there and say I told ya so. I shudder to think what would have happened this past year if they had gotten their way and privatized social security.

The Republicants don't believe in a Government:

Of the people, by the people and for the people.

They believe in a Government:

Of the corporations, by the corporations and for the corporations.

They believe in self-serving Greed, and benefits for the few; at the expense of the many. They believe in comforting the comfortable and afflicting the afflicted.

They wrap themselves in the Flag, then they put profit before patriotism. Their party on longer resembles the party of Lincoln. They have chased away most of the Centrists, Moderates and all of the Liberals. Their Ranks are now populated with Becka-nites, Pala-nites, Fox Spin News Propaganda Zombies, ditto heads, Right-wing Bible thumping Christian Hypocrites, who go to Church on Sunday; loudly and publicly proclaiming their family values and moral superiority. Then they slither back quietly into the shadows of their secret adulterous relationships; when no one is looking.

The Democrats have their share of money grubbing corrupt politicians, but they have not claimed the mantel of moral superiority,that the Republicants have so loudly claimed.

The Republicants are shrinking down to a minority of right wing malcontents, who will say anything, no matter how wrong or depraved to bring fear and pessimism to the political atmosphere, because that is the atmosphere they thrive best in.

Such a load of disinformation, hate mongering, and fear from Democrats on a rampage.

If you want end hypocrisy you might want to consider VFCS has been less than pleased with VA care as shown in their Federal lawsuit:

Veterans For Common Sense et al. v. Peake,
Case No. C 07 3758, U.S.D.C. (N.D. Cal. 2007)

Despite this, the Department of Veterans' Affairs ("DVA") is failing to provide adequate and timely benefits and medical care. This federal lawsuit, on behalf of veterans with pending claims based upon PTSD, regardless of the conflict in which they served, is for declaratory and injunctive relief, based primarily on the due process clause of the Constitution. We will focus on the following issues:

-- See Link of VA failures contained in the federal lawsuit.

The hypocrisy is astounding. Is federal medical care good? The Veterans for Common Sense didn't think so.

Jedi

There is a difference between inadequate care and having a manual to encourage veterans to commit suicide. The Veterans for Common Sense said that while things have gotten better in this regard there is still more work to be done. Not sure how you see hypocrisy on their part.

I think part of the fear is if vets believe this crap they will be less likely to get help, which is what they very much need.

I will just let Veterans like me decide. The lawsuit was in 2007. Everything suddenly better?

Nine days ago, Jim Towey, the former director of President Bush's Office of Faith Based Initiatives, and founder of the non-profit group Aging with Dignity, entered the health care debate by throwing gasoline on the dying death panel embers with a Wall Street Journal op-ed called "The Death Book for Veterans."

...

But though Towey's clear aim is to inflame the death-panel scorched health care wars, his real suggestion could have been offered in a somewhat more constructive way. For instance, he could have just said, "My death book is better than your death book!"

Towey is the author of a separate, 12-page end-of-life planning document called "Five Wishes"--available in full for the low, low price of $5.00 on the Aging with Dignity website. You can see a preview here (PDF).

source: TalkingPointsMemo.com

The guy who started this meme is in direct competion with the exsisting VA end of life counseling book. It's sickening; and all about money.

Steele: "Honey, don't tell the K-I-D-S that there's no such thing as Santa Claus!"

Here is the workbook they are misquoting

Note that the instructions (pages 1 and 2) specifically state that you should read through the workbook an:

THINK about what you want and then; COMMUNICATE - YOUR wishes to family and friends

All the VA ever asks for is the name of said family and friends in case there is an issue; never what you told them

So Brian do you have a living will?

If so are you going to off yourself?

Sooooo what does your post have to do with anything, LMAOROF !!!!

Brian... it is not just the VA that see as morally wrong, it is also Vets that see it too. The GOP are attacking every age group and every group that had a job in the Gov't. Can you see that. The 1st group was tha older Americans. Then Palin said that he will be the kids who face death panels and now it is the Vets. Next up will be ????????

Brian - just more L I E S from the rabid right.

I linked the workbook in 15.1 so everyone can see the lies - read what the book actually says rather than the rabid fearmongering L I E S put out by the right

remember "You are posting this comment to a publicly viewable discussion." and it is just sooooo easy to say L I E with a link like this. Maybe you should find a forum you can control - a personal facebook page, for example

Tell me Brian, have you read the pamphlet?

It can be found online here.

The questions they read were not made up.

Really. Here is Steele's comments, from the article:

"If you want an example of bad public policy, let's look at this situation with our veterans where you have a manual out there, telling our veterans stuff like, ‘Are you really a value to your community?'

I read through the pamphlet, and (unsurprisingly) nowhere did I find anything like this. Perhaps the closest it came was the section asking veterans to think about what they feel makes their life worth living-- pp. 21, which asks them to rate their personal response to the statement "I can no longer contribute to my family's well-being" but choosing one of the following responses:

"Life like this would be:

• difficult, but acceptable
• worth living, but just barely
• not worth living
• can't answer now"

Nothing about the community-at-large, but everything about how best to care for yourself and the people closest to you...

Well, Brian, your post says to ME, with all of your ranting about how much debt we are in, that YOU want to see vets kill themselves because you are tired of paying for them.

That's what I take away from your post. I have as much right to interpret your post as meaning you want vets to commit suicide as YOU have to interpret the VA's pamphlet as doing the same.

Brian, I went to your link and watched the PJTV clip. First, I've never heard of PJTV? Where did you find them? Second, I watch alot of MSNBC and they did show that the gun totting man was black. I remember being taken aback and wondering when the extreme right began accepting African Americans into their flock and "what the hell is he doing with them!"

kmsad,

I just want to thank you for your statement. I've seen sooo many people attacking MSNBC for not showing that the gun-toter was black and no one has tried to debunk them as of yet (I hadn't just because I didn't figure it would do any good). However, the only segment on the gun situation I've watched was on Rachel Maddow, and I'll be honest, I can't remember if I saw the man or if Rachel mentioned that he was black, but I knew that he was. If they had tried to do some big "cover up" on the guy's race they didn't do a very good job.

Brian-

Why haven't I ignored you before now?

I must be slipping.

Ignored.

Bryan, you want vets to kill themselves...that's what it comes down to. You hate being taxed for their care. That's my interpretation and I have a right to it.

Bush held hands with the Saudi King and they walked together hand in hand. Looked like a picture postcard.

Gee Brian, for all your ranting I don't see you responding to the fact that Steele's comments about the V.A. pamphlet were obviously wrong.

Not from the left, just a really good friend of their's, lol, just kidding, couldn't pass it up.

Gotta be able to laugh! Too much anger on Newsvine.

Disagreement is fine-- believing that he's unsuitable to be PotUS simply because he's a self-identified African American, and gearing all your arguments around that unimportant fact would open you up to the "racist" critique. For many observers, the fact of his race is what seems to be behind the Birthers, the "his middle name is Hussein" folks, &c &c...

But I understand disliking the network that they were made on makes it much easier for the left to link them together.

And there are people on the right which do the same with anything that comes from MSNBC...

Let me first say that if Steele can not produce where he was getting his information to back up what he said an apology is simply not enough.

He can't. You can check for yourself-- the pamphlet can be read here.

Disagreeing with a black president doesn't make you racist. But lying about people calling you one when you DO disagree...well, THAT is racist. In fact, making up a lie like that is just as evil as making up a lie about the VA.

Want Me to Play, the Fox News aspect of it was that Hannity was pushing the same agenda as Steele on this document.

YET more3 L I E S

What the report said (and several Veterans groups have said this as well) is that returning vets are targets for recruitment precisely because of the skills they were taught in the military - killing people

Duh!

McCain should apologize, "Christian" coalition should apologize, Roberta Combs should apologize; this was a common sense report that was commissioned by Bush along with another on left wing terrorism; and all it said was that the bad economy and other issues were making returning veterans a ripe target for recruiting by right wing terror groups.

NO SURPRISE!

And the Veterans organizations supported the report (note a part of the report was people arrested for doing this.)

Doh!

Caught in a L I E again

Agreed, that report sounds very much like something US terror groups would do.

Bill - yet another nonsense comment - it's the righties who are spitting on you, Bush who thought you should pay a Buy-in to use VA services; etc.

Steele lied. The link to the book is above and read the summary I stated and the workbook - The republicans should be called the death party because their answer keeps being that vets (who can;'t even get in the VA because they underfunded it - to the extent that McCain had to get help to get emergency funding - help came from Senators Diane Feinstein (D-CA), Patty Murray (D-WA), and Hillary Clinton (D-NY) - it was Sren Larry Craig who let the VA down, Bush who cut the funding to support his tax cuts for the rich

Obama has proposed increasing VA funding over 15% next year - now who is L Y I N G to you? Who is supporting the vets?

Funny, didn't see the righties spitting on any returning soldiers then. I do see the righties welcoming home the troops today. The VA budget has already been approved for the next two years. Now who is lying?

"It kinda' pisses me off that these lefties who spit on us, called us baby killers, are once again using the military and veterans for their own purposes."

Hey, you are the party that's telling soldiers to kill themselves. Don't go pointing fingers.

How is that? End of life counseling is one of the tenants of Obamacare. That's why it was extended to the VA.

Bill, some of the lefties are in the military. The booklet in question is just about a living will, something all military folks should have on hand. If it's offensive then maybe they might not have been paying attention to the fact that being in the military might put you in harms way.

Technically, under Bush, the amount the VA requested in funding was cut every year as of 2004 (sometimes by significant amounts). So while the VA got its budget, it got far less then was needed. Now, Republicans are using it as a basis of why a public plan would not work, forgetting to note the higher then average approval people in the system give the VA.

That tin foil hat a little tight there, Debbie?

Why didn't anyone call a Bush appointee a czar every time he installed someone for a job?

Completely off topic. What does this have to do with the VA and Steele distorting the truth Debbie?

Debbie-

Some of you are so ignorant. 'why don't you research this info yourself if you don't believe Fox?

Good idea. Perhaps you should do the same.

Read the damn pamplet yourself [.pdf]

So what do you do if you DO believe Fox? Do you do any research to see they're right?

I guess we'd be out of the war business for a while. Is there a downside to that?

What would happen if our fighting military went on strike?

It'd never happen.

I guess we'd be out of the war business for a while. Is there a downside to that?

Majestic, someone's got to do the job, and the lack of US service members would definitely not spell out peace.

I'd be more concerned about a coup attempt then going on strike, quite frankly.

I'd be more concerned about a coup attempt then going on strike, quite frankly.

Also not going to happen.